Dragon Ball Z Uncensored

Stupid Fucking Faggot · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:22 pm)

This isn't necessarily supposed to make sense from the outset, because the topic has built-in ambiguity, which is why I made the thread. Basically to explore the issue of skill in general.

SO MAYBE YOU CAN JUST SETTLE DOWN ALDP.

Let My Love Open The Door · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:23 pm)

You shouldn't have made the lists then, stupid!

Derek Payne · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:24 pm)

Because Chris isn't using subjective in the traditional sense at least not completely. To an extent he is with writing (and acting somewhat), but it's more of a poor choice of word on his part. Dependent and independent skill would've probably been just as acceptable to an extent. Skills that while having various levels of personal competence are dependent upon outside factors, and skills that are entirely dependent upon personal ability.

Nickass · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:25 pm)

I find these categories and their corresponding lists to be highly capricious and arbitrary.

Theldorrin · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:27 pm)

I don't think you can fake whistling or singing, either. You just have to ask them to sing precisely what is given, and not 'interpret it'.

Programming is objective in the same degree as piano playing.

Magic Juan · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:27 pm)

Yeah, but you can be good at cards, but bad cards coming up and shit like that doesen't diminish your skill. People can look at the cardplayer and go, "Man, he is fucking skilled, but shit didn't fall his way." I don't think that makes it dependent or anything. Yeah, maybe he doesen't find success in CARDS because of bad luck or something, but the skill factor is constant.

Derek Payne · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:27 pm)

Yes I would argue that writing would be seperated into categories and some would be subjective like poetry and some would be more objective like a thesis.

Let My Love Open The Door · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:28 pm)

Theldorrin, if you think sheet music means the same thing as music, I'm not even gonna bother arguing with you.

There are people who can sing or otherwise replicate a melody the first time they hear it.

Theldorrin · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:30 pm)

ALDP, I'm trying to remove the performance from the composition. The performance is subjective. Improvisation is subjective. The problem with singing is that people are heavily into improvising things into it, whereas this is less common (but still prevalent) with instruments.

Improvisation is impromptu composition, and composition is subjective in the same way as writing.

Stupid Fucking Faggot · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:30 pm)

What I'm really talking about is the level of certainty between how good a person THINKS he is at something and how good he ACTUALLY is at something.

With some types of activities, that gap is very narrow. With others, the gap is wide.

Whatever, this is probably too complicated to talk about.

This thread is basically born out of my frustration at poker, and how much more rewarding it is to work on my skill at pretty much anything else.

SuperPsaturn · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:30 pm)

I'd say drawing is definately subjective because there are probably people who were impressed with Laserkid's artwork.

Derek Payne · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:31 pm)

I don't know though, acting is still probably objective because one can still tell if someone is a good actor even when they're working with a bad script.

Theldorrin · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:32 pm)

Chris, you should decide on one archetypal skill that really exemplifies your point so we can understand what you're talking about.

Stupid Fucking Faggot · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:33 pm)

It's possible that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Theldorrin · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:33 pm)

Also, sheet music doesn't actually capture all of the nuances of a piece. They leave a lot to interpretation.

It'd probably be better to just have them try to copy someone else, or create a more elaborate notation.

Derek Payne · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:34 pm)

I think poker is really the only good example of subjective that you have up there. I would say anything where an amateur has a chance to perform as well as a presumed professional would fit the bill.

Action Hank · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:35 pm)

High literacy rates are a modern phenomenon.

Let My Love Open The Door · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:36 pm)

That's what Jews say

Action Hank · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:39 pm)

All Jews?

Let My Love Open The Door · (Thu May 31, 2007 7:41 pm)

Did Sylvia Plath hate Jews, or what? Or did she just love Nazis? Or did she just love using Nazi imagery? And do you know if she had a good body? Did you ever see pictures or anything while majoring in English?