Dragon Ball Z Uncensored

[Yogurtman]

Well, generally I vote Democratic on a consistent basis, I just felt I had to vote for the Independence Party candidate for governor in 2010 because Mark Dayton was such an epic failure as a Senator and I was upset that he was the Democratic nominee. If I had actually thought there was any chance Dayton might lose, I probably would have voted for him, though.

(The Independence Party was originally the Ross Perot campaign apparatus, it doesn't exist nationally anymore but it survived as a Minnesota-specific party because they managed to get Jesse Ventura elected governor. It's basically a fiscally conservative, socially liberal party.)

[Fagzilla]

I've been looking into anthropogenic climate change skepticism lately.

Interesting!

[kakarot52]

I have yet to see a convincing argument why its ok that governments suck but not ok that libertarianism sucks
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To continue is power -Shitbeast

[MADali]

Government is very important.

[kakarot52]

freedom is more important!!!
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To continue is power -Shitbeast

[Action Hank]

If not for government, you wouldn't be able to sit at a computer and type up the comments that you've written. The internet was built using government grants and research, as were computers.

The reason why we have technology that we do is because of government. The reason why we live in the most peaceful time in the history of humanity, so that you can sit around and think all the time, is because there are government bodies working to keep peace, and whose own self-interests require there to be a greater peace.
The reason why you can even imagine becoming a libertarian is because there was a government that educated you and provided a societal structure that let you learn and think in a way that suited you. You didn't have to survive on subsistence farming and hope you'd get through the winter.
A lot of people are assholes. I mean, life makes it that way. What is good for one person might be bad for another, and there are more than enough people willing to screw over their neighbor to get what they want. Without the incentive or threat of force, there are plenty of people who'd simply take from the pot.

Imagine taking away the government. Imagine it was replaced with a libertarian regime. What's gonna stop your neighbor from breaking into your house and taking your stuff if there is no paid police force, or even worse, a for-profit police force that is for hire to the highest bidder? How does an economy even work if there is nothing regulating trade? Should we not help people when they are sick? What happens when you get sick and don't have the money to pay your medical bills? Should we let you die, because that's just the libertarian way?

Do you see the shit people pull when there is a government and regulation? Do you think that government is what causes those problems?

I get the whole idea that you want to be left alone and want the government, whether on the local or federal level, to let you do what you want, within reason. But what defines that reason? Libertarianism is a form of disengagement. Life is hard and sucks and responsibilities and other people suck, but it is a fantasy to think that the ideal situation is for us all to claim our homes as independent functioning principalities with a loose communal structure. Because there is no way I'd want to go back to clan-based living. There's a lot of rape, ethnic cleansing, war, and disease down that road.

Sorry, I've been smoking, again.

[kakarot52]

Most of your arguments only apply to a first world nation in the past 30 years. They dont even apply to the USA, whose military expenditures have been abrasive to both itself and the world.

Your arguments about peace, for instance, ignores the rather violent history statist european societies have generally had until the cold war.

I admit that government has been a driving force in human progress, but hardly the exclusive one.
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To continue is power -Shitbeast

[Sporkism]

I think libertarianism recognizes that government is needed, at least in a limited capacity, to protect people from others who would infringe upon their individual rights. I think a police force and such would fall under that category, wouldn't it? Banks getting assistance from the government, on the other hand, would not fall into this category.

Expanding on the issue of governments intervening in the failure of banks or other businesses - if you need more and more intervention from the government just to keep everything afloat, where did it go wrong in the first place? Or why isn't "survival of the fittest" a thing that works, with respect to capitalism?

I mean, yeah, libertarians, and I guess some republicans too, keep crying about "free market" -- so is it the free market that creates Walmarts and these other giant monopolies that the government then needs to split up? Or is it something else?
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@}-,-'- *~*~* Member of the FTU Elegant Tea Party Society *~*~* -'-,-{@

[Magic Juan]

Oh my god, I cannot believe all this conservative bullshit everyone is spewing.

[kakarot52]

I guess it's true that libertarianism borders on, or is an all out euphemism for anarchism.

I'm more of a classical liberal; I concede the ultimate impracticality of libertarianism, and Ace did a good job of outlining some of its weaknesses (a lot of his post was BS but he did ask some tough questions)

I've stopped being a socialist because the prices in western europe offend me. I just don't believe in the whole statism and PC spiel of modern liberalism. The world isn't a politically correct machine, even if a lot of history and the present makes it seem that way.
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To continue is power -Shitbeast

[MADali]

I guess we can all at least agree that "democracy" in US is one of the worst in the world.

[Ryoko's Biatch]

Stop being so jealous of our freedom.

[Big Fagot]

It's important to have a perfectly just government so we can live in comfort and freedom for these last few moments before the entire world is suddenly digested by robots.

[Action Hank]

Do you think the robots would discriminate against cyborgs?

[Fagzilla]

Vito's last post is the best post in this thread.

[ALDP]

Do you ever wonder if you could make good posts?

[SuperPsaturn]

Do you guys ever wonder if Theldorrin would still be alive if we made more of an effort to make FTU interesting?

[Jason]

Oh wow, Chris thinks Vito's post about being the smarmy, aloof, moderate-yet-transcendent perspective is the correct one?
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Last edited by God on Fri Apr 05, 33 4:00 am; edited 1 time in total

[Jason]

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Last edited by God on Fri Apr 05, 33 4:00 am; edited 1 time in total

[Fagzilla]

So, of the available options, it's better to be polarized?